10 replies to this topic

[Steve Hatch]

Hi all,

I am a fairly new member to this forum and have recently been posting images for Critique. I started wildlife photography a year ago although I only upgraded to a decent body and prime lens at Xmas.
I have been fairly happy with some of my shots but am really struggling with the post processing side of things.

I quickly realised my old laptop was not giving me the same view as others were seeing so I have upgraded to a 27" iMac desktop, I cannot believe how bad some of my post-processing was until it was pointed out (thanks to Barry Fisher and Roy Churchill) and I changed my computer. I have also read Barry's article on over sharpening etc and am sure I am guilty of this.
I have Cs5 but to be honest I am just fiddling and playing around with buttons and menus and have no particular strategy or method in what I am doing. Whilst I do realise that every image may require different amounts of post-processing can someone give me a few pointers as to what I should generally be doing and what tools are best to use. I have tried to use layers and can see the importance of these but I cannot for the life of me, for example, accurately select a bird. Also when I have tried to merge the layers i can always see harsh edges. There are various tutorials I have found online but these never seem to apply when trying to use them on birds and i spend hours just getting frustrated

I totally understand everyone will also do things differently but I would be grateful for any help at all, nothing to complicated just basics would be fine for starters including what order things would generally be done.

I shoot Raw and am fine in the Raw screen of Cs5 where i then save as a Tiff file. I open the saved Tiff file up in Photoshop Cs5 and then I have no idea what to do.

Sorry if its asking a lot

Thanks
Steve

[Simon]

Personally I would start from scratch and get Lightroom 4 (or Aperture). Its a workflow package so you organise, process, print and export all from the raw. I only use Photoshop rarely for certain special functions and where layers might come in useful (like creating promotional material). As a processing tool I can't stand it (far too complex and cumbersome when you have lots of images to work with). Its an extra expense but you'll recoup it in terms of time and results in my opinion. The develop module where you carry out most of the adjustments is very intuitive in Lightroom and its a step-by-step process with sharpening last. You can then add a watermark and output as a jpeg or print (you can save your favourite settings and procedures as templates for continued use).

(no, I don't work for Adobe, I just think its a cracking bit of software )

[Steve Hatch]

Personally I would start from scratch and get Lightroom 4 (or Aperture). Its a workflow package so you organise, process, print and export all from the raw. I only use Photoshop rarely for certain special functions and where layers might come in useful (like creating promotional material). As a processing tool I can't stand it (far too complex and cumbersome when you have lots of images to work with). Its an extra expense but you'll recoup it in terms of time and results in my opinion. The develop module where you carry out most of the adjustments is very intuitive in Lightroom and its a step-by-step process with sharpening last. You can then add a watermark and output as a jpeg or print (you can save your favourite settings and procedures as templates for continued use).

(no, I don't work for Adobe, I just think its a cracking bit of software )

OH MY GOD! I had a feeling someone would tell me this, I have very recently purchased Cs5 which was the best part of £600 quid (poor advice from another forum?) so unfortunately I cannot afford to change the software I have. I know what you mean about being complex, glad its not just me.

[Simon]

Don't get me wrong, it can do the job but its designed for so much more than straightforward processing of RAW files. I'm sure someone here can point you in the right direction with an appropriate workflow but I've not really used in that way for ages (is it really £600 now ?)

[Barry Fisher]

Steve, for what it's worth I'll try to point you in the direction that I take. I'm not saying that its the best way and others will almost certainly work in other ways but it does work for me.
Simon's advice is fine and I'm considering getting LR4 myself. I do have CS4 on my own office PC but I usually do my post-processing on my laptop or normally these days on a new all-in one Packard Bell PC that I have dedicated to processing images etc. On both of these I only have Elements 10 but I don't miss not having CS4 available as I seem to be able to do most of what I want with Elements.
However, as you've already paid out for CS5 let's try to suggest a workflow that you can use that is simple and doesn't need all the complicated bells and whistles that CS5 can provide. My work flow is for windows so you will have to use the correct comand keys for Mac use.
Set up a file structure to store your images in. I'm sure you will already have done this though.
Open up bridge in CS and browse the files to select the image you wish to process and open the selected RAW file in ACR.
I usually crop my image at this stage as I don't want anything that I'm going to crop out affecting my decisions for the conversion settings.
Now start at the top of the options and work your way down in a logical manner:
Select the correct white balance either using the pre-sets offered or the temperature slider until you achieve the colour balance you want. If you make a mistake just double click on the triangle in the slider bar and it will revert to the original setting to start again. If necessary you can fine tune with the Tint slider but I rarely have to do this.
Next, correct the exposure keeping an eye on the histogram so that you don't clip the highlights. If you hold down the alt key whilst doing this any clipped highlights will show up against the dark background. If you just clip some of these highlights you can use the recovery slider to restore them again. Just hold down the alt key and slide the recovery slider until the clipped highlights all but disappear.
If you need to lighten any shadows use the fill light control to achieve the effect you want.
You can darken any blacks that need it using the Blacks slider, but take care in using this as slight changes can have big effects on the image.
Next increase or decrease the contrast if required, again keeping an eye on the histogram to avoid clipping.
Next I add a bit of clarity and vibrance ( a setting of 25 on each is usually OK for me.)
I find I don't normally need to add saturation but you can at this stage if you want to.
I normally keep the capture sharpness and noise reduction settings at their default settings at this stage so then I open the image as a 16 bit Adobe RGB image in Elements (or CS4).

I then clean up the image if necessary using the healing brush tools etc. If the image is to be saved for forum use, I resize it so that the longest edge is 900px at a resolution of 72ppi using Bicubic sharper for the reduction process.
Next I select the bird by clicking around it's edges using the magnetic lassoo tool. (you can then save this selection for future use if required at this stage).

(At this stage I have to convert the image to 8 bit mode in order to use my version of Neat Image noise reduction).
Next I invert the selection to select the background and apply noise reduction to just the background, using a Neat Image plug in for this purpose.
I then inverse the selection again to select the bird and apply USM as necessary to sharpen just the bird. (normal settings are Amount 100, Radius 0.3, Threshold 1). I then hit control F three times to reapply the sharpening in four stages as previously recommended by Mod. Mark Wilson. If this appears too sharp you can then easily back off this sharpening in stages using the history panel.
All that remains then is to add your copyright text and save the image as a jpeg to meet the forum rules. If you use "save as" rather than "save for web" the exif data is retained with the image.

I've done this in a bit of a hurry as I'm trying to get all my equipment ready to carry out some sampling at a factory in S Wales tomorrow and Wednesday, so if I've missed anything out or made any glaring errors, please excuse me and I'm sure that someone else will point out where I've gone wrong.

Hope this is of some help. If you need any more help don't hesitate to PM me or ask on here as there are plenty of other members who are much better qualified to help you than I am.
Cheers
Barry

[John Stuart-Clarke]

I totally endorse what Simon said. Whilst lots of folks love Photoshop and use it very skilfully to produce brilliant end results, for the mass majority of photographers striving to present authentic nature images, I personally feel it represents overkill.

Given that you have bought your software and now cannot switch (but still urging you to do exactly that ) my suggestion would be that you deliberately restrict yourself to using the raw converter and then one of the sharpening tools/methods available in Photoshop. It doesn't matter which sharpening tool/method - just pick one and stick with it. I've tried them all and they all have different pros and cons so it comes down to personal preference in the end. Having made your choice, practice using the raw converter and your chosen sharpening method until you are entirely comfortable with them. Only then would I suggest you start looking at layers and other wizardry - if you dive into these things too soon, you risk unnecessarily overcomplicating things just for the sake of it.

Other members will no doubt disagree entirely with my perspective but as someone who has tried to crack Photoshop a number of times, I know where you are coming from and I share your pain

Where post-processing is concerned, less is more.

Good luck!

[Steve Tucker]

Steve
Whilst PS may be a daunting prospect, you have not necessarily made a mistake buying it. I have CS3  and use it for most of my processing, I would love CS5 but cannot afford it at the moment.
However, LR4 would certainly be easier to use and may perform a few of the processes easier than PS but dont be scared of it.

I would suggest buying a decent book on CS5 such as Martin Evenings Adobe photoshop CS5 for photographers. Or Scott Kelbys book, Martin Evenings is the one I use, it is a thick book but starts with the fundamentals and works on the areas of PS that are relevant to photographers and stays clear of the digital art areas.
You will find good instruction on tasks such as pre-sharpening and cloning and how to use layers and importantly layer masks which are invaluable in my opinion.
Although it is true that Wildlife photography uses some of these areas less than other areas of photography why restrict yourself.

If you did not already have CS5 I would say buy LR4, which would be a good addition if money is not an issue, but you have a great piece of software there.

[Rich Steel]

Hi Steve

The main thing about workflow is to think about carefully your file organisation and to be comfortable with your software. I have always used a combination of Capture One Pro to process the raw files and Photoshop to finish them off. Photoshop may seem a bit daunting but you will actually find after some use that you will only use a small proportion of what is an incredibly powerful bit of software. You can also speed things up in photoshop by assigning commonly used tools to the function keys. For example when I want the noise reduction plugin to kick in I just hit F8.

As suggested picking up one the books is a good idea but there are only a few key elements you should concentrate on for nature photography that would include resizing images, adjusting contrast, quick mask and layers, noise reduction and sharpening. You can find plenty of discussion of these through a quick trawl around some wildlife photography forums, especially sharpening! Another good source of photoshop info is YouTube where there are many, many worked examples.

Cheers

Rich

[Maggie Campbell]

Steve I use CS3 and paid for a days tuition with a pro wildlife photographer. It was money well spent. Trying to work it out on my own was a nightmare. I find it much easier to learn if someone actually shows me how to do something rather than reading it from a book.

Barry I can see why you don't post many images if you go through that rigmarole every time to process a photograph And you work too. I'm impressed

[Barry Fisher]

Barry I can see why you don't post many images if you go through that rigmarole every time to process a photograph And you work too. I'm impressed

Actually Maggie it takes a lot longer to type it than it does to carry out the process. If you're using CS3 yourself you must already be carrying out the raw conversion with ACR anyway and the final stages that I carry out in photoshop (CS4 or elements) doesn't take long at all and presumably you must also be carrying out some of these stages yourself anyway, (resizing and sharpening even if no noise reduction).

The real reason why I don't post many images is that I've gone through that stage of wanting to post images all the time on a previous forum. Having offered critique on so many images over the years, I now find that I can normally recognise all of the nits in my own images by myself.

However, if members want to see more images from me that I'll be happy to oblige......

[Steve Hatch]

Thanks to everyone for the replies